Workout of the Day

I think for some movements, like the snatch, if we were seeking consisteny of perfect form before intensity we would never add more weight to the bar. For the more complex movements, I think we should have a good base level of technique before adding some intensity, but after that still strive to improve consistency, for example, by focusing on technique during lighter warm-up sets. For simple movements like push-ups, to me "consistency before intensity" comes down to "don't cheat the movement." Full range of motion is more important than beating the clock. At the same time, I think greater consistency LEADS TO greater intensity, if you are measureing intensity by what you're getting out of your workout rather than just the time or number of rounds.

Sweet! If I backsquat an hour a week I'll have it mastered in only 200 years--I'm on it!

Another question to throw out there is the idea of Consistency of Mechanics vs this idea of Perfect Mechanics? Is there such a thing as Perfect and where is that line drawn? Tania's point is well taken in that if we strive for "Perfect" will we get anywhere?

Remember that a "Perfect" 5RM, or 3RM, or 1RM max attempt Deadlift shouldn't have "Perfect" form or it likely isn't a true RM attempt. Is that reality a complete contradiction to what I am saying above?

Well, consistency alone doesn't do you much good if your mechanics are consistently bad. Unless you are using "consistent" to mean something other than "free from variation."

This right here is a huge part of why I am a fan of MSP.

The discussion about consistency reminds me of the distinction made between reliability and validity in a lot of scientific experiments. What we are looking for at MSP is some closeness to an ideal, executed similarly each time. (Consistently bad is still consistent, like Tania said.) And the reasons for choosing each ideal form vary from movement to movement: deadlift form keeps you with a rigid spinal column and produces a lever to get weight off the ground; pushup form gives better range of motion; a proper kettlebell swing creates explosive power from the hips; a well executed snatch creates power that isn't matched by a poorly executed snatch.

To me, it seems that we have reasons for each movement, and those reasons predicate how and why we do them the way we do. At high levels of intensity, there will likely be more variance from the ideal, but this may allow us to circle back and make those gains that our bodies do when pushed just to their limit. So, in the end, intensity only exists because of the stricture to consistency. And consistency is necessary to attain some prescribed goal. Or something like that.

"Perfect" has always been a word that bothers me a bit. I think perfection is something that should certainly be striven toward, however, I believe it is rarely attained.

For our purposes at CFMSP, I feel like we try our best to work on perfecting our skills pre and post(if we have anything left) WOD. The more we practice solid technique when our minds and bodies are not being stressed, the more likely we are to carry that solid form over into our WOD even into the reps or rounds that have us wanting our mommies.

Should we ban intensity until our form is near flawless? I don't think I would go that far, and it depends to some degree on the movement as well. Let's say that a newer CrossFitter is in a WOD that calls for box jumps. If they are not getting full hip extension at the top of every jump do we force them to scale back to steps? Maybe...but I would rather see them do 75% of their jumps correctly and get reminded about the hip extension on the ones that they miss. So in this case I feel like intensity may be a bit more important than perfect form. Mainly due to the fact that risk of injury is minimal.

Let's say that same CrossFitter is Deadlifting in a WOD. I would throw time and intensity out the window to make sure that the technique is dialed in at a low enough weight that the risk of injury is next to nothing. Actually, in the case of deadlifts, I would say that regardless of experience/ability, form should always take precedence over time. Maybe even more so with experienced lifters with heavy weight.

This is becoming a bit of a novel but my main point is this:
Perfection is the goal and we want to practice the way we want to perform, always trying to improve and focusing on excellent form. That being said, intensity is a big part of CrossFit and why it works. And as long as you are SAFE and being mindful of form, intensity is a good thing.

Oooo...Double-unders would be a case where we often scale back so that intensity can be the focus. If you can't get consistent DUs during a WOD, you are not going to get the intended benefit so you scale back to either DU, single, DU, single or just singles. I would say that the risk of injury on DUs is low but that rope ALWAYS leaves a mark on me

Man, what a Great Exchange!! Not only do we have the best athletes and community around, but the smartest!! Excellent thoughts and points to ponder.

What a great point of Consistenty BAD technique is not what we are looking for...which I would
hope should be self explanitory...but with that said do we all truly strive to improve...or do we sort of brush this or that movemet under the rug because I may not like it??

If you don't practice to achieve consistently GOOD mechanics, then two things happen:
1. You increase your risk of being injured, possibly seriously.
2. You will not achieve the desired benefit of the movement.
My opinion is that both of these outcomes is entirely unacceptable.
Everybody loves to use the deadlift as an example. The most common fault is turning it into a straight legged deadlift, i.e. the hips rise too fast, legs become locked out, the weight is lifted entirely with the back. What happens?
1. Your spine is put in a horrendous position: attempting to lift heavy weight alone. The outcome is you see the convex position of the back and you run the risk of one of your lumbar discs being shot out into the wall behind you.
2. The amount of weight you will be able to lift is much much smaller than if you first push the ground away with your legs and then use your PC to bring the bar to lockout. It's not even close. Using poor mechanics with the deadlift means that muscle groups are not utilized efficiently and the stimulus gained by lifting heavy weight is lost.
If we are truly practicing "elite fitness" at CFMSP then in my opinion we cannot accept anything less than consistently GREAT mechanics.
In my mind this is where scaling comes into play: if you can't do the entire workout with consistently GREAT mechanics, then scale it back so that you can. If I know that towards the end of Cindy I will not be able to pull my chin over the bar and lock my arms out at the bottom of every pullup then I need to consider the fact that I should use a band for pullups. I might not get injured with poor form on pullups, but I probably won't get any better at pullups either.
Bottom line, I think everyone should be very critical of themselves during a workout at CFMSP. When the going gets tough and your heart rate is 200 bpm and you're drenched in sweat, your mind should still be thinking "weight on heels, chest up, tight midsection." Every time. I think we all do a very good job of this. When we practice this, we avoid injuries that keep us out of the gym and our lifts go up and our WOD times go down.
Finally, one thing to think about is that of the year that I've been at CFMSP I don't know of anyone who has had a serious injury. Sure we've all had our nagging bumps and bruises, but I'm not aware of anyone who has missed significant time due to a WOD-induced injury.
Sorry for the long winded essay.

I agree with everyone's point so far, except for Logan's box jump example. If you're capable of jumping on the box and jumping off the box you're capable of doing it properly 100% of the time. If you're only doing it right 75% of the time you're being lazy 25% of the time. This is where "cheating the movement" to increase rounds or decrease time comes in. But rather than increasing intensity, when you are cheating the movement you are actually decreasing intensity because you're robbing yourself of at least some of the benefit of the movement.

If you're talking highly technical movements, I agree that the main consideration is avoiding injury and making sure your form is sufficient to benefit from the movement. If those criteria are met, I think it is appropriate to increase intensity while continuing to work on perfecting form.

Interesting...taking the box jump example is a curious one because while yes, they may be indeed cutting the corner on the top part of the movement (i.e. lack of hip extension), I may be able to accept that for the larger picture at that time and place of favoring the dynamic nature of the "JUMP"

Take today's WOD, the point Logan made is great as for the 1:00 of work, I want to scale it right from the start for anyone who has issues with continuous D.U's.

Fun, fun, FUN conversation you guys!!!

Ok here it goes...I'm going to make an argument with an attorney. I must be crazy. Tania, in my example of the box jumps(which may not have been the best example out there) there are a lot of things to consider. Laziness or cheating the movement are not the only ways to look at it. I guarantee that there are many athletes at CFMSP and other CrossFitters out there (myself included) that are far from lazy or cheaters trying to get the best time.

While in the midst of a set of box jumps (in a wod for time) I am certainly attempting to get full hip extension on every jump. The fact is that it is a very dynamic movement that involves a few variables including balance. If I have just done 25 box jumps and on my 26th I don't get quite the pop that I was able to muster on my first 25 and I therefore sacrifice a bit of hip extension so that I don't fall on my can, I would not say that I made a lazy decision.

I understand that in theory if you can do one box jump to full extension, that you should be able to do every box jump to full extension. Technically this is true but in reality that is not the way things always work out and it certainly does not mean that a particular individual is lazy or cheating the movement.


Think of the snatch...a very dynamic movement as well. Every time one of us goes up to the bar we plan to give it everything we have and execute the lift correctly, after all we have lifted that weight before so we should be able to lift the same weight every time. We know this is not the case. Granted it is a more complex movement than a box jump but the point is the same. Less than perfect form every time does not necessarily equal laziness or cheating of the movement.

That all being said. Are there people out there that do get lazy and do cheat the movement? Certainly. But from what I see on a daily basis, that is not the case the vast majority of the time. Most of the time the athlete thinks they are getting to full extension or thinks that they are going to full depth on the squat. Body awareness is not a given and takes a long time and a lot of work to learn. If we all knew when we were getting to full range of motion every time, none of us would need a coach to help point out areas for improvement.

I hope that clears up any confusion from my previous post.

Sorry for the long post

I don't think I've ever felt robbed of intensity by having to slow down and concentrate on full range of motion or engaging the right muscle groups vs cranking out 90% work for a good split time.
That said, I also really enjoy the competitive aspect of a group CF workout, so I constantly struggle to find the control make the movement "right" (proper/full range mechanics) and not "right now" (just finish fast).

In my interpretation, Crossfit is about personal athletic power. And power is the rate at which work is performed over time:

Power = Work/Time

To get more powerful, the athlete either needs to do more work, or do the same amount of work in less time.

Proper technique should enable the athlete to do more work in the same or less time. The athlete can lift more, jump higher and run faster with proper technique. The moment technique is compromised, the athlete is doing less work, which means less power is generated. The athlete can attempt to makeup for compromised technique by working faster. However, working faster usually results in poor technique, which often leads to injury.

So why are injuries so bad? Well, leaving aside the fact that they hurt injury means the athlete can not work, which means less power is generated.

Further, in my opinion, in this equation, time needs to be measured over more than just the minutes of the workout, it should be measured over the lifetime of the athlete.

For me, proper technique is paramount in maximizing my personal athletic power.

Great post Jason. Exactly the point I was trying to make as well. Consistent, high standard technique will allow you to workout longer and harder, which is what fitness is all about.

All right Logan, that's fair. But in your example, you are getting it right 97% of the time instead of 75%. My point is simply that when someone is getting it right 75% of the time (whether the movement be box jumps, push-ups, squats, what have you) and they are capable of closer to 100%, it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to push it to closer to 100% accuracy.

Of course, if as Michael said, there is another, more important goal at the time, then maybe it becomes similar to a deadlift or snatch, where it sounds like we all agree "perfect" technique will sometimes take a back seat to intensity.

First I gotta say the Vince Lombardi quotes always makes me shake my head--if I can perform a move perfectly in order to practice perfectly, then I don't need to practice because I've already perfected it.

Although this thread started with with 2 options, consistency vs. intensity (which was later refined to consistently correct), I think the safety issue can't be integrated into those categories, but needs to be it's own parameter.

Take for example, rowing. I have seen fabulous athletes turn out some pretty impressive rows with some absolutely terrible technique. Should the intensity of those efforts be tapered in order to work on form? Depends on the setting I would say. For the athlete's long term performance, he or she would get even better results with better technique, and the sooner that technique is learned the less muscle memory of bad technique will need to be overcome.

However, to slow down every single rowing workout because the form is (or gets) sloppy, would IMHO not be the correct solution. Sometimes work on technique, sometimes go ahead and do the best you can and throw some intensity at it. This can happen because there's very little injury risk in bad technique.

On the other hand take something like a deadlift where you can hurt yourself with bad technique. In this case, I think the form work always has to take precedence over intenity until the form is correct enough to protect from injury.

But once, the injury, safety element is covered, there are still elements of form/style that may not be correct or "textbook", but that shouldn't necessarily eliminate intensity as long as safety is not a concern.

In "Olympic Weightlifting", Greg Everett writes "For nearly any detail of lifting technique presented in this book, at least one successful lifter who violates it can be found." I would argue that if they are a successful lifter, then the safety margin has been covered but their technique is obviously less than perfect by someone's definition. That doesn't mean that said lifter shouldn't ever lift with intensity (or they wouldn't be successful, would they?)

Michael Phelps won 6 gold medals in the 2004 Olympics with less than perfect technique. He continued to work on his technique (which was paid off with 8 golds at the 2008 Olympics) but he had obviously been working with intensity the whole time. So there can obviously be a balance there where both are worked on.

Since I'm already in rambling mode, I'll throw one more thing out there--standards. There is a reason they exist, and it behooves an athlete to meet them at all times. If someone does 35 rounds of Cindy, but doesn't actually get their chin over the bar, in a WOD they are only cheating themselves. They'll be in for a surprise when they show up to a competition and find out they only get 15 rounds because most of their chinups were disallowed because they were actually nose ups.

This actually happened to some friends of mine who were just at a training weekend in preparation for Crossfit regionals. They thought the WOD would be easy and ended up with a DNF because the standards were strictly enforced and they were not used to executing the specified move to full extenion, so about every other rep was disallowed by the judges.

Train hard, but train smart!